The third time was in December. Even though we’d just been there in November, we went again.
And this time, it’s just the two of us.
So the third time was in December, right? That’s the month after November.
That’s right. That makes three times in half a year.
Where did you go this time?
The outskirts of Kyiv—Irpin, Bucha, and Borodyanka.
Those are all names I’ve heard on the news.
That’s the area that suffered the most damage when they attacked from the north.
I heard you organized this trip differently than the first and second times.
We arranged the trip ourselves. Up until then, we’d been traveling under a framework that included Japanese companies.
Why did we go on our own?
It was at a point when what we could do—and what we should do—had become clear. There were some places that were simply difficult to visit as part of a group, so in order to see as many sites as possible and meet with as many stakeholders as we could during our limited one-week visit, we had to go on our own.
The rubble is in the suburbs.
That was another factor. There was a debris processing facility we absolutely wanted to inspect, but it was in a somewhat hard-to-reach location. Thanks to the cooperation of various people, we were able to inspect the site.
Once we’d finally decided to proceed in Ukraine, we realized we couldn’t make a judgment without going to see things more closely. We also couldn’t decide which partners to team up with.
What was the processing facility in the suburbs actually like?
It was completely different. Because there’s so much debris, support from various countries is flowing in. It was a facility supported by Japan, including JICA. At another facility, there was a state-of-the-art debris processing facility supported by the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.
First, how do you sort the collected materials? How do you identify asbestos, how do you remove it, and where do you store the removed material? The procedures were clearly defined.
It’s the exact opposite of Lviv, isn’t it?
It’s the exact opposite. The debris here is of high quality.
So you actually use the term “quality” when referring to rubble?
I’m not sure if “quality” is the right word, but from the perspective of reuse, it needs to be properly pre-processed. It’s close to where it’s generated, properly sorted, and available on a consistent basis. Plus, it’s right next to the capital.
“This is the area to locate a factory,” they said. From the manufacturers’ perspective, that was reason enough.
“It’s settled,” you say.
It was decided.
Hearing all this, it sounds just like what we’re doing in Tagawa, doesn’t it? Using local materials locally.
That’s right. We’re a company that has always valued local production for local consumption.
We source limestone from the soil in Tagawa and turn it into plaster at our Tagawa factory. We use what’s right under our feet. We don’t transport materials. We’ve been doing this for a hundred years.
The philosophy is the same in Ukraine. We transform what’s available in that region into building materials right there. The principle is exactly the same.
So, did it feel strange at all?
No, actually. The materials found there are rubble.
Local rubble—sourced locally—becomes a complex issue for those directly involved in the war.
……I see.
Until just the other day, those were someone’s homes. They might have been schools. People lived there; they had lives there. To crush that, mix it, and turn it back into flooring…
The approach that feels most natural to us isn’t so straightforward there.
Still, can’t you say there’s meaning in it?
I suppose you could say that. But I don’t think it’s up to us to decide.
It’s a feeling that doesn’t come to you unless you go there in person, isn’t it?
It just doesn’t come through. You can’t understand it from photos or reports. It’s something that only emerges once you go there, see it, and smell it.
We’ve decided on the location. We’ve also decided on a partner. On this third visit, we were shown the local company’s headquarters and factory.
Now it’s just the machinery. We absolutely need a machine that can produce unfired tiles.
Next, I’ll tell you how that took a whole year.